Jehovah has the same limitations and capabilities as the WB&T Society, GB and the Writing Department because they, together, are Jehovah.
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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14
What Jehovah can't do...
by C0ntr013r induring the rc today i heard this(i am paraphrasing and translating):.
"jehovah has created the physical universe for us.
he is a spirit and he can't enjoy physical things so he created it for us alone.
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Is it necessary to prepare for the Watchtower or book study?
by BashfulAshG inall of my years in the truth, i never understood why we had to study before each meeting.
the contents are self-explanatory with the answers to the printed question within the first or the last sentence of the paragraph.
then, commenting never made sense, especially comments and experiences that don't answer the printed question.
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Max Divergent
I couldn't bear to pre-study, hated it. But I was quite a regular fill-in Watchtower and book study conductor or reader: so, typically, I was up there having not much idea what was in the article / book, but I'd heard it all before so could usually guess the gist.
But I soon realised it didn't matter a damn whether the conductor knew if the answers were right or not, or even what the subject was. I just had to be nice to them all from the platform, utter some clichés, and get about three answers per paragraph, but avoid numpties who'd could be predicted to say something I'd be expected to recognise as wrong (but probably wouldn't coz I wasn't really listening).
Everything just seemed to take care of itself. I quite liked conducting / reading the studies since it relieved the boredom of sitting though one.
The only thing was that it was embarrassing not to have a marked Watchtower. Sometimes I didn't care, sometimes I did something cursory. Toward the end I just ran random highlighter pen over the page for appearances sake.
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How do Americans feel about Canadians and Britons interjecting their opinions onto hot localized political topics: gun laws, abortion, ect?
by adjusted knowledge inin addition to the above question, why do citizens of the two above mentioned countries, or other countries, feel the necessity to tell americans how they should interpret the american constitution for localized issues?.
i fairly much have an idea what the general population in the usa feels in regards to the first question.
this could be one of the possible reasons cnn piers morgan poor ratings and eventual firing.
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Max Divergent
Hi TD
I get the difference between holding an opinion and expressing an opinion.
I hold, however, that it's a bit redundant to question people's expressed opinions on an internet discussion forum on the basis of the country they're from.
By all means fire away on the basis of the expressed opinion being rooted in ignorance of the complexities of the issues or whatever other objective failure there may be in whatever someone might write.
But to say a Brit or a Canadian or whatever should have nothing to say about X because X is only for Americans to discuss is a bit rude. A foreigner may have as much of value to say as an American.
Or not.
I just say consider the value of the contribution made to the discussion, not the national origin of the poster.
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A brazen falsehood in this week's Watchtower study! (week of Feb 9 - 15, 2015)
by Island Man inon page 13 of the december 15, 2014 watchtower (study edition), the first 2 sentences of paragraph 10 say:.
"the symbolic separating of fish does not refer to the final judgment during the great tribulation.
rather, it highlights what would happen during the last days of this wicked system.".
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Max Divergent
I just can't even make much sense of what they write now. They just string together a bunch of assertions in metaphorical language. It's so lightweight it doesn't make sense. -
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BRITAIN | Man 'glassed in the face' at Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses
by jwleaks innews report.
13 february 2015 .
man 'glassed in the face' at kingdom hall of jehovah's witnesses.
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Max Divergent
That is truly awful. All thoughts with the victim and their family and friends, let's hope the injuries heal well and the attacker gets the help he needs: like secure accommodation.
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72
Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?
by stuckinarut2 injoe slaiman and his wife jean were in the travelling work in australia throughout the 90's... ( i may have spelt the name incorrectly).
anyone remember them?
they were very well liked by many of the brothers and sisters.. i wonder what happened to him?
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Max Divergent
I found an old post of mine on the same topic, written much closer to the time with more details and, no doubt, more accurate than my memory is now of the conversation. Maybe they asked multiple similar questions.
The point, though, is about whether the focus at the time of departure from the Witnesses is on belief in God and the bible, or acceptance of the organisation.
For context, I was a third generation JW, a well-liked goody-two-shoes, self-righteous prick and good public speaker who had recently stepped down as an uber-MS and stopped going to meetings. The DO had recently left (that was Joe) and two COs had recently been DF'd while on our circuit.
For what it's worth, this is a lightly edited excerpt from 13 years ago:
The question they asked me was something like: 'In your opinion, do the Witnesses present the truth, but that truth isn't for you; or, do you believe the Witnesses do not present the truth'? I replied that I'd given that some thought and checked the dictionary definition for heresy and that seemed to describe the first condition they described. I'd also checked the dictionary definition for apostasy, and that seemed to describe the second condition.
I said that I didn't think that either condition described my position, but that I was acutely aware that my current thoughts were probably wrong and that I couldn't and wouldn't presume to trouble others with it. 'At the end of the day, I'm not sure where I'm at in regard those very serious positions you describe, but I remain absolutely dedicated to truth and goodness. I just don't know about those sorts of really big questions at the moment' (and what's wrong with any of that from the JW point of view?).I wasn't subject of any judicial process at all. The point is that you can leave without being DF/DA, if you no do not profess a position against the Society. Private non-belief or un-certainty are fine. I used to assist in the shepherding of 'inactive ones' (ie: those who'd left on their own terms and weren't DF/DA), some I had met on the doors and had no idea had been JWs.
The attitude of the elders seemed fourfold:
1) calling was a duty,
2) it was just a matter of being nice and letting them know they could come back,
3) it didn't matter what sins they were committing (de facto relationships, smoking etc), and
4) it was easy field service hours, often complete with tea and cake, so long as they weren't identifying as JWs.
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72
Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?
by stuckinarut2 injoe slaiman and his wife jean were in the travelling work in australia throughout the 90's... ( i may have spelt the name incorrectly).
anyone remember them?
they were very well liked by many of the brothers and sisters.. i wonder what happened to him?
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Max Divergent
I would think a guy like me with a family still in would be asked by the elders if I believed or not in the Bible
In my time as a JW, and I don't think anything has changed, the question asked (as best I remember from 1998) was something like whether one accepts that the Faithful and Discreet Slave had something or other to do the the Society and the congregation and God.
I responded that if my answer was 'yes' then I was a heretic since I wasn't participating in the congregation and if my answer was 'no' then I might be an apostate. And since I was neither of those things, I said, (a lie - I was both) I didn't know the answer to the question (also a lie - I knew the answer).
One seemed amused (he'd been a friend for years and was as liberal as a JW elder gets), the other (hard core) got a bit annoyed and (correctly) said I was smoke screening. I didn't answer and that was about the end of the conversation.
That's the reality. If you're not accused of a 'gross sin' (and non-belief is not a gross sin) and don't criticize or question the organisation and you don't hang around the KH like a bad smell, you shouldn't get DF/DA.
But I'd guess most departing JWs do one of those things.
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72
Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?
by stuckinarut2 injoe slaiman and his wife jean were in the travelling work in australia throughout the 90's... ( i may have spelt the name incorrectly).
anyone remember them?
they were very well liked by many of the brothers and sisters.. i wonder what happened to him?
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Max Divergent
you have the audacity to ask us to bury the hatchet, endure the pain and suffering and agony and as you say...'move on and enjoy what is left of it in contentment and happiness'.
Maybe in a quiet moment JW GoneBad might reflect on the gap between what Joe wrote and the response.
Joe reflected positively on what life has for us and asked no one to bury or endure anything, including WTS induced pain, suffering or agony.
Moving on in contentment and happiness in no way precludes one from contributing to the recovery of others, however any individual might go about doing that.
In fact, I'd be as bold as to suggest that someone who has moved on into contentment and happiness might be a more effective advocate for any cause that one still mired in bitterness and hate.
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72
Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?
by stuckinarut2 injoe slaiman and his wife jean were in the travelling work in australia throughout the 90's... ( i may have spelt the name incorrectly).
anyone remember them?
they were very well liked by many of the brothers and sisters.. i wonder what happened to him?
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Max Divergent
... religious authority, on the other hand, is only valid and effective through the voluntary acceptance by the individual. So it is authority by acceptance.
This is just how I reasoned, by coincidence in 1998, when I determined I would not allow myself to be subjected to disfellowshiping or disassociation. I would not subject myself to their processes after I determined I was neither a Witness nor a believer of any other kind, and all of that simply became irrelevant. I deflected the questions of two elders who came to visit me, and when they asked for a second meeting I said they were always welcome at my home, but I had nothing religious to discuss with them. That was the end of it.
Two or three years later I was visited by an elder-special pioneer and his special pioneer wife, he was given my new address by an elder. I told him I did not believe in the bible or God, and I recall his response. He said, after a pause and some evident contemplation, something close to 'Oh, so in that case you would find it impossible to accept the Faithful and Discreet Slave and the role of the Watchtower Society and the congregation?'. I agreed, and said nothing of the Society (mostly since I would have considered it rude to criticise what was obviously important to him). We went on to have a few pleasant enough conversations on both the bible and general topics, neither of us tried hard to convince the other of anything and there was no question of any kind of proceedings against me whatsoever. Like Joe said, I did not accept their authority and they did not try to impose it.
I have never criticised the Society in the company of Witness. That allows me to have occasional, quite normal contact with the few Witnesses I still know or come across form time-to-time, and we take one another's company for what it is.
This third road out of the Witnesses is available, but is either not possible or not palatable for many departing Witnesses.
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72
Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?
by stuckinarut2 injoe slaiman and his wife jean were in the travelling work in australia throughout the 90's... ( i may have spelt the name incorrectly).
anyone remember them?
they were very well liked by many of the brothers and sisters.. i wonder what happened to him?
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Max Divergent
Joe, thank you so much for responding here. You were so well liked and well regarded, and your gracious post here shows in small part why. I am glad you were able to separate from the organisation in such a dignified way. While I'm sure it was a very difficult time for everyone involved, the respect you showed by explaining your position showed more courage than most of us here have been able to. And it seems to reflects well on the brothers that they did not call for a committee given your altered view. I stopped attending and offered no explanation as to why to protect myself from being accused of apostasy (I no longer believed in God, thus could not continue as a Witness either). I've sometimes reflected since on what impact my way of leaving might have had on those who had been my friends for years before.
While I prefer anonymity on the internet, please in any case accept our very best wishes and know that you're remembered warmly and that we're thrilled to learn you and Jean are happy and well.